My Conversation with Pastor Rick Warren

I watched the over hyped Leadership and Compassion Forum that Pastor Rick Warren held with Obama and McCain. Based out of SoCal, Pastor Rick pastors at the mega-church Saddleback Church. Pastor Rick is an influential and painfully hip, casual born again Christian.

Anybody can read the transcripts of the interviews. However, I figured more interesting than the answers the suave and polished political machines humming along would provide, would be my answers to those same questions. So imagine Pastor Rick across from me and asking (and I’m cutting to the chase of these questions, but they are the questions he asked):

Pastor Rick: Who are the three wisest people you know in your life and who are you going to rely on heavily in your administration?

Dada Bob: Well Pastor Rick that’s a great soft ball of a question. I’d have to start for political reasons to say first and foremost, my mother. (Without irony. Come on now, give me a break!) She has been with me through thick and thin. And had I listened to her advice I probably would have gotten into as much trouble in my life as I have. The second person, would be my wife. Now this doesn’t mean that I listen to her, but she’s so down to earth, that it’d be hard to go wrong listening to her advice. I like to dance out on the edge; she doesn’t. She’s much wiser than I am. And finally, in an effort to appease people like your Pastor Rick, I’d have to say that my religious counselor is the wisest person I know and is another one you simply sees through the bullshit and doesn’t let the stink stick to his shoes. Granted, my religious counselor is a Tibetan Buddhist monk and that probably has you and your congregation either damning me to hell, praying for me, or both, but the truth is Geshela just isn’t caught up in the affairs of this life and can quickly disabuse you of the pettiness of it all.

In terms of my administration, let’s face it, I’m not going to be elected, but if I were I’d probably ask some folks from NPR and Comedy Central to help out. They really do seem to know what’s going on, more so than most politicians or people I know.

P.R.: What …would be the greatest moral failure in your life and what would be the greatest moral failure of America?

D.B. I’d like to think that I don’t have any great moral failures—I’ve never stolen (much), cheated on a loved one, physically harmed anyone, etc. Not that I’m some angel, far from it. I can be a real asshole—just ask my wife. But in terms of the grand scheme of moral failure, I’d say that I haven’t stood up to power in a meaningful way. In a way that really and truly jeopardized my position—physically, socially or culturally. I’m all bark and no bite. A pussy.

It’s much easier to be a critic and point the finger at others. So America’s moral failures are easy for me to spot and discuss. A list in no particular order:
The way we have allowed the few to control the many.
The way we treat the elderly, the poor and the disadvantaged.
The way we have based a foreign policy on money instead of leading with the value of freedom from oppression. And I mean oppression from capital as well as from politicians and religion.
The way we fail to educate people in this country.
The way we demonize different points of view.
The way we let the market place make moral and artistic decisions for us.
Hell, I need to stop with this list—it simply reinforces my desire to escape from America.


P.R.: Can you give me and example of where you went against party loyalty and maybe even went against your own best interest for the good of America?

D.B.: Well , let’s just say I’ve never named names. Was that good for America? I don’t know, but it was never good for me!


P.R.: What’s the most significant position you held ten years ago that you no longer hold today, that you flipped on, you changed on because you actually see it differently?

D.B.: Fuck Pastor Rick, I flip-flop every day! Who hasn’t changed their mind? In fact this is just a stupid question (granted it may show some type of growth or regression). But if someone ten years ago saw me today, the biggest change in political thought they’d find is probably that I believe welfare should be some type of work fare. The assumption is that the person can work, if not in a traditional sense than maybe in a nontraditional sense. Or to receive welfare you need to go to school. But you have to do something, according to one’s ability to do something. But I will say, I think it should be a lot easier to qualify for welfare. (This actually has overtones of what Obama said.)


P.R.: What’s the most gut wrenching decision you’ve ever had to make and how did you process that, come to that decision?

D.B: Pastor Rick, that’s one macho question. There’s a real hidden “prove your manhood” vibe about it, and the truth is I ain’t no John Wayne. I’m white, male, working class, from the suburbs. So, how many really unique “gut wrenching” decisions do you think I’ve made? Watch a soap opera, take out anything half way interesting, and that’s it. Leave it to Beaver with more drugs and less sex.


P.R.: We’ll be back and we’re going to talk about world view in the next section.
[Cut to commercial insert ad and pay me.]


P.R.: What does it mean to you to trust in Christ and what does it mean on a daily basis? I mean, what does that really look like?

D.B.: Well Pastor Rick, I have to admit don’t I trust in Christ. I’m not sure why I would even do that. Don’t get me wrong, I understand the need to believe in something that will help us, in some way conquer death. But the whole Jesus Christ thing just ain’t my bag.

But I do find the idea of Jesus and his stature as god a fascinating subject, especially the heretical gospels. In fact, the more heretical views of Jesus make the case for Jesus as one to trust in much more compelling. But what does it really look like for me? I’m sorry to say it doesn’t look like much.


P.R.: At what point does a baby get human rights in your view?

D.B.: When it becomes a baby. Your question really is when does life begin. There’s no scientific answer to that at this point in time. So the question is really about abortion; do I support a woman’s right to choice? The simple answer is yes. The more complicated answer is that I probably wouldn’t counsel someone to get an abortion. In the end, I believe that it is up to the woman, her conscience, and her god.


P.R.: Define marriage.

D.B.: Two consenting adults publicly committing themselves and, in doing so, happen to get some tax benefits.


P.R.: Would you support a constitutional amendment with that definition?

D.B: Sure, why not? But let’s be open to creating an even better and more inclusive definition.


P.R.: Do we still need federal funding for [stem cell] research? Would you still support that for embryo stem cells?

D.B.: Pastor Rick, I’m just gonna give short answers to these questions. The obvious answer is yes to both questions; however, I feel like you want to ask me more volatile questions but are afraid to because you’d be accused of something.


P.R.: Does evil exist and if it does do we ignore it, do we negotiate with it, do we contain it or do we defeat it?

This is really an interesting question. The concept of evil is interesting in that you are supposing evil is your enemy, thus your enemy is evil, thus you are good. I’m not sure I’m good enough to answer this question. But you do have to deal with that which is not you (assuming a very conventional view on the concept of reality).


P.R.: The courts. Let me ask it this way. Which existing supreme court justice would you not have nominated?

D.B.: See Obama’s answer on this one; he did a pretty good job of it.


P.R.: The Civil Rights Act of ’64 says that faith based organizations have the right to hire people that believe like they do. Would you insist that faith based organizations forfeit that right that access federal funds?

D.B.: Yes. Although I’ll tell you that here in New Orleans faith based organizations have done more for the city and its people than any U.S. governmental entity.


P.R.: Do you think better teachers should be paid better? Should they make more than poor teachers?

D.B.: I think you should be paid to do the job you’ve been hired to do. We need to fund continuing education programs for teachers, but if someone’s not doing the job, they really shouldn’t be paid. Find that person the job that they can perform well in.


P.R.: Taxes. This is a real simple question. Define Rich. I mean, give me a number.

D.B.: Let’s not dance around this. I think that $300,000 is plenty (and I don’t know anyone that makes even close to that). If you’re benefiting from the system, you should contribute more to the system. But in reality we need to figure out some type of formula or have an algorithm to figure out that number since economic variables and levels will always be changing.


P.R.: As an American, what’s worth dying for? What’s worth having to sacrifice of American lives for?

D.B.: That’s another tough question. I’ll tell you this Pastor Rick, Iraq is not a good reason to sacrifice American or Iraqi children. Dafur is a problem we should be involved in solving. But do we always need to think about war as the first choice? The problem is that we don’t get involved to the point that war becomes the only option. America has lost its leadership position and that is a reason why we’ve found ourselves in positions of weakness recently.


P.R.: What would be the criteria that you would commit troops to end the genocide, for instance, like what’s going on in Darfur or could happen in Georgia or anywhere else, a mass killing?

D.B.: To answer this with a set of criteria would be an arbitrary endeavor. The world isn’t that black and white. Let’s see what happens when it happens, then, by judging the specific situation—act accordingly.


P.R.: Would you be willing to consider and even commit to doing some kind of emergency plan for other fans like President Bush did with AIDS almost a President’s emergency plan for orphans to deal with the issue?

D.B: We should do a lot more to help people adopt and to prevent, as much as possible, the causes for children being put up for adoption—poverty, addiction, lack of education, etc.


P.R.: Religious persecution, what do you think the U.S. should do to end religious persecution for instance in China, in Iraq, and in many of our allies?

D.B.: Religious persecution. Ethnic and cultural genocide. Abuses of the rights of women and children. All of these and more are the types of crimes various governments we support are guilty of. Let’s assume we as a country condemn all of these practices. Then why do we not do something? Let’s look at who benefits. Usually, it’s a few fat cats. So I say let’s not only punish those countries, and I don’t mean going to war with them, but let’s punish those at home who benefit from those unlawful practices.


P.R.: Human trafficking. How do we speak out and how do you plan to do something about it?

D.B.: See above. But let’s actually put people responsible (on both ends of the equation) in prison, not a country club prison, but something like what poor people are thrown into.


P.R.: Tell me in a minute why you want to be President?

D.B.: You know what, if I have to keep answering questions like these, I really don’t want to be President. Fuck it.


P.R.: And I’ll just ask you what do you say to people who oppose me asking you these questions? That will be the last one.

D.B.: Fuck them. This is Amerika.


P.R.: What would you tell the American public if you knew there wouldn’t be any repercussions?

D.B.: You’re trying to set me up with that one!


P.R.: Thank you.

D.B.: No Pastor Rick. Thank you.